COVID has taken care of the airline hiring problem for the next three to five years, making the issueance of an increased ADSO redundant. Like it or not, you need to accrue that experience one way or another. At least 70% are not degree holders and they come from all 5 branches of the military. Furthermore, the Army should implement quality of life and quality of service surveys for every pilot who remains. This means a steady paycheck and decent home life, except that as the newest pilot in the unit Stan is at the top of the list to deploy if the squadron gets sent downrange. It doesn't matter that theWOFT contract I signed this week states that it is a 6 year ADSO - the Army can do and change what it wants. Its important to note that Stans theoretical plan might have allowed him to obtain the 750 hours needed for an R-ATP about 7 years after graduating from college, but thats not competitive for getting hired at a major airline. Final thoughts the social aspect of the Army has never been worse. Army Aviation: Alternatives to the 10-year Service Obligation Aviation Bonus Program - FY2023 Program - United States Army The 10-year service obligation is the result of a numbers-related calculus related to Army manning and will not address the problems that make Aviators leave. United States, and the U.S. Army Re-serve, unless otherwise stated. In the end, it's the Army getting a good return on the investments.. The rest are grandfathered in. I would have stayed in for another 10+ years if I had the opportunity to revert to Warrant Officer and fly more, but that opportunity doesn't exist. Fly them that way through the instrument phase, and then conduct a rotary wing transition. The Army has had pilot shortages off and on ever since I can remember. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. At least in the early 2000s, there was the ARFORGEN cycle. That seems like a lifetime to an 18 year old. Would they do it with a 12-year commitment? He was thinking about turning down an Active Duty UPT slot and fulfilling the alternative 5-year USAFA non-pilot ADSC as an engineer or something, then pursuing a UPT slot with a Guard or Reserve unit. They just can't have over 8 years TIS without a waiver. Think they will pay the bonuses and flight pay like the other branches? No additional time added with a BRADSO. I transitioned from infantry to aviation and have had off-and-on heartache with it ever since. People tend to forget, aportion of street to seat WOFT applicants areprior service. By Thomas Brading, Army News ServiceAugust 18, 2020. I greatly appreciate the responsiveness of this community and the depth of feedback y'all have provided, but I want to be sure that the consensus expressed herein is not just the culmination of a bunch of bad experiences but is actually a systemic issue. The B-2 about to get fuel: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/5765915/b-2-and-boom. My ORB says a date 6 years from my AD start date, which Im pretty sure is wrong. But, we want as many people as we can get to apply. My talk with Stan covered all of these, so my next question was, How long were you planning on being involved in military aviation then? Stans family has still moved several timesboth as an engineer and as a pilot. For example, if there are 100 ROTC Aviation slots, only 20 can receive the Graduate School Option. The Army is making those who want to go through flight school incur a 10 year active duty service obligation (ADSO) as it's "fix" for pilot retention. The program offers an incentive to remain on active duty in aviation service for either 3 or 5 years, beginning at ADSO expiry or contract approval date, whichever is later. If pilots today are so unhappy that they are leaving in numbers higher than expected, why would prospective pilots accept a much longer service obligation for that same experience? Question for the Salty Dogs: 10 Year ADSO : Armyaviation - reddit Like many personnel issues though, the age limit is probably ripe for a re-look given that people now live healthier, more active, and longer lives. Also new is that time in grade for WOs doesn't start until you graduate flight school. That means, we need you! Furthermore, for cadets who may want to pursue a civilian career after a stint in the Army, the opportunity costs are higher the longer they stay. 10 U.S. Code 2114: Graduates of the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences incur an ADSO of at least 7 years. Aircraft like the E-3 dont have many bases. Be older than 18, but not more than 33 years at the time of board selection (Active Component (AC), USAR, and ARNG) . Reading your first paragraph and skimming the rest I couldn't agree more. If youre worried about frequent moves disrupting your family life, picking a community with few basing locations is a viable option for Active Duty. By policy, the Army must review the AvB program quarterly to determine the program's effectiveness. Over the last few years, Army senior leaders took steps to address the pilot retention challenge. Display as a link instead, I honestly don't believe that the way out of this is getting more people to fly that have less time available left in their military careers. If the civilians don't want to join, not a problem. Branching Aviation New Commitment | Page 2 | United States of America Ideally, hed also earn his Instrument Rating, and build as much experience as possible. The consensus seems to be that if you graduate flight school inFY 2021, you accrue the 10 year ADSO. Whatever path you end up taking, please consider taking a UPT slot when offered. If the civilians don't want to join, not a problem. self refer to ASAP, mental health, yea you can get out but you're not going to fly on the outside. Though I agree that there is a retention problem, especially within aviation, I'm not sure the Army is focused on the right issue here. There are many complexities in these advanced helicopters, which translates to increased costs in flight hours, maintenance, and training requirements, Kearns said. Even during a deployment when demand for flight hours was high, the more senior Warrant Officers were flying double that of the more junior pilots. The future of Army aviation depends on retaining the pilots in whom it invests so much. A regular Active Duty pilot career path. This is not going to end well until leaders finally understand that there has to be a work/life balance. No one knows somehow, my S1 doesnt know either. Army Secretary Ryan McCarthy recently signed a memorandum that increased the ADSOor active duty service obligationfor Army pilots. Just sign away your life until you're 34!". However, after spending a few more minutes thinking about how these career paths might compare, I decided Stans idea might not be as advantageous after all. It never ends. Very true. Our nation needs brave men and women willing to use Air Power to murder our enemies and break their shit. What tf is my Aviation ADSO? BrADSO? : r/army After working several years in the corporate sector in various strategic positions, I recently came back on active duty due to the strong desire to serve. In the report provided to Congress, however, increasing the service obligation was not mentioned as a possible solution to pilot retention shortfalls. The Palace Chase program exists specifically for Active Duty pilots willing to make an early commitment to continue their service in the Guard or Reserve. If you want to. Exit surveys are important, but those only capture the opinion of those whom the Army has already lost. Gen. Michael McCurry, the director of Army aviation for the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff G-3/5/7,who said in September, One question I often get asked is, are the airlines impacting your shortfall? Age should be liftedI'm in my mid fifties and still fly helicopters (civilian market) for a living. Fiscal Yr 2021 starts Oct 1, 2020. There is no down time, no time to build family and relationships and the team. Wonder if you can get out early if NOT making CW3 or must you hang around. Officer Active Duty Service Obligation (ADSO) Guide Again, 70 percent of Army pilots are warrant officers, while Air Force pilots are all officers. So the recruitment piece has not historically been our challenge, it has been capacity and production. But what if the new ADSO invalidates this assumption? How is my list for OCS? : r/army - Reddit (Yes, they say ADSO instead of ADSC because the Army and the Air Force refuse to do anything the same since they divorced back in 47.) So 6 years from ALE graduation day? b. They can surely find that amount in the Enlisted ranks if WARRANTED. So got word that it only affects WOs that complete WOCS after 1 Oct 2020. What if you transfer from being an officer with 8 years of service (including enlisted time) to being warrant aviation? Branch of Choice: Your BRADSO obligation runs consecutively with your flight school ADSO and your commitment will run out to about the 10 year point. I would be inclined to say that your contract is still 6 year ADSO. Special and Incentive Pay Index - U.S. Department of Defense Im a career guy so I dont mind but initially it can be daunting. They might be stuck on Active Duty slightly longer than Stan, but hed have to spend at least a couple of years at a regional airline to even start competing for major airline jobs. As several others have said, this policy fails to address the root problems high OPTEMPO, poor quality of life, irrelevant mandatory training, etc. I feel that part of the problem is that the Army assessed too many senior NCOs into flight school, which helped get them into this box that they are in. army aviation 10 year adso - tecis.in Aviators selected for DH can expect an accompanied increase in flight pay from $650/month to $1,000/month at 10 years of aviation service (YAS) . Rather, the Modern War Institute provides a forum for professionals to share opinions and cultivate ideas. On this career path, Stan is most likely to leave young kids at home with his spouse while he deploys. ROTC Scholars have a 4-year commissioning ADSO. For anyone interested in becoming a warrant officer, individuals should contact a warrant officer recruiter or visit the Armys Warrant Officer Recruiting website. Another disparity is the pay inequality between the militarys pilots. I'm very healthy and fit, I would like to fly helicopters. The new policy doesnt include Soldiers currently in training, said Chief Warrant Officer 5 William S. Kearns, aviation and officer policy integrator for the Armys G-1 office. Once Stan finally gets qualified in his aircraft, hed get seasoning orders with his Guard or Reserve unit. Press J to jump to the feed. Aviation Bonus (AvB) Program. One Academy cadet I spoke with (lets call him Stan) has always wanted to be a military pilot. Army directive, AD 2021-31, approved Sept. 10, 2021, and effective Oct. 1, 2021, will reset the time required for aviator warrant officers (military occupational specialty 152 through 155) to. If you graduate after 1 Oct 2020 expect a 10 year service obligation. pay, allowances, benefits, and responsibilities as a member of the My family got to live in England for three years and it was fantastic! Theres no debating that the military has a near monopoly on the most exciting aviation available to humankind. This mindset is far from universal, but its prevalent enough that the Academy actually had pilot slots go unfilled a few years ago! That hesitation will open up slots for others further down an OML or with less stellar accomplishments, potentially creating other issues related to performance or aptitude. There's an easy answer to this the oblivious, tone-deaf culture of "readiness" that GEN Milley fostered while serving as the CSA. Excerpt from your enlistment contract which every one of has (or will, if selected) signed. My formation barely ever conducts social events. You incura 6-year ADSO for completing WOBC and also for completing Initial flight training. The Army can increase this to 100% with no problem whatsoever if needed. Army, Coast Guard . Air defense branch offering $60,000 bonus for warrant officers, New aviators to incur 10-year service obligation, New Aviators to incur 10-year service obligation. However, on the surface, we see that Stans plan is likely to get a pilot to the airlines a couple of years before his peers. Such changes may affect my status, More money for tents and rifles, I suppose. Serving on Active Duty has plenty of advantages, and even offers some highly-desirable opportunities that you cant get anywhere else. There will always be external factors and organizations that draw quality talent from the Army, but the Army should have more flexibility in their ability and measures to retain quality talent. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. The answer is clear. amp, June 5, 2020 in General Military Helicopter Discussions. That's the Army's ace in the hole. Why would you stay in the Army where you barely get to be a normal human, where you could make twice the pay, work half the amount, and actually get to live a somewhat normal life? I dont agree with this decision at all but mean forcing people to stay helps retention because you know, they are forcing you. The congressional study on pilot retention noted, One of the most important variables in meeting pilot requirements is the retention rate, as this is used to estimate what level of new pilot production is needed.. It's a great time to apply to become a pilot, and [Soldiers] can get in with a high school degree. If I am reading this correctly, this applies to officers that attend initial flight school after October 1st 2021. Nope. This is the second part of a series about choosing between military and civilian career options. It didn't help that the CSA took advantage of his own program by taking private military flight lessons and was awarded his pilots wings while a 4 star. The Army has more career Enlisted willing to cross over for the opportunity in being an Officer and increasein pay for the family, with or without a degree. Yes, the Ultimate Military Pilot Career Path is the best it gets you to all of your goals the fastest. Just to end it and walk away.. victorious..? These cadets may not be willing to forgo an extra four years of civilian work experience to serve as aviation officers. F-22 crew chief: https://www.dvidshub.net/image/4798866/f-22-europe. Raising the service commitment ignores the actual root causes. The Army, by contrast, could only say that Army senior leaders recognize there are growing civilian opportunities for Army pilots. Why not allowing retired personnel to do what they always wanted? It seems the 10 year ADSO is now official. That is completely and totally gone. Hopefully it is dependent on start date and not graduation date. In the last decade, retention has always been a hot-button issue. You'll be a WO for three-ish years. While I continue to assert this is far better than becoming an Active Duty pilot through the USAF Academy, ROTC, or OTS, I worry that Ive done people a disservice by making the Active Duty pilot career path seem too unattractive.