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Thank you for that. Oh, I hope I haven't offended you, Brian. Not because they just found that altar. There's all kinds of reasons I haven't done it. I am excited . #646: Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Lessons from Scholar Karen Armstrong, and Much More Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and - TopPodcast And I want to say that this question that we've been exploring the last half hour about what all this means for the present will be very much the topic of our next event on February 22, which is taking up the question of psychedelic chaplaincy. You take a board corporate finance attorney, you add in lots of childhood hours watching Indiana Jones, lots of law school hours reading Dan Brown, you put it all together and out pops The Immortality Key. He dared to ask this very question before the hypothesis that this Eleusinian sacrament was indeed a psychedelic, and am I right that it was Ruck's hypothesis that set you down this path all those many years ago at Brown? What, if any, was the relationship between this Greek sanctuary-- a very Greek sanctuary, by the way-- in Catalonia, to the mysteries of Eleusis? What is its connection to Eleusis? But so as not to babble on, I'll just say that it's possible that the world's first temple, which is what Gobekli Tepe is referred to as sometimes, it's possible the world's first temple was also the world's first bar. So welcome to the fourth event in our yearlong series on psychedelics and the future of religion, co-sponsored by the Esalen Institute, the Riverstyx Foundation, and the Chacruna Institute for Psychedelic Plant Medicines. So when you take a step back, as you well know, there was a Hellenic presence all over the ancient Mediterranean. He was greatly influenced by Sigmund Freud (1940) who viewed an infant's first relationship - usually with the mother - as "the prototype of all later love-relations". To some degree, I think you're looking back to southern Italy from the perspective of the supremacy of Rome, which is not the case in the first century. So you were unable to test the vessels on site in Eleusis, which is what led you to, if I have this argument right, to Greek colonies around the Mediterranean. Because very briefly, I think Brian and others have made a very strong case that these things-- this was a biotechnology that was available in the ancient world. The Immortality Key - David Bookstaber I'll invite him to think about the future of religion in light of all this. So this whole water to wine thing was out there. Things like fasting and sleep deprivation and tattooing and scarification and, et cetera, et cetera. This is going to be a question that's back to the ancient world. Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin: The Eleusinian Mysteries BRIAN MURARESKU: That's a good question. It seems entirely believable to me that we have a potion maker active near Pompeii. I mean, I asked lots of big questions in the book, and I fully acknowledge that. And this is what I present to the world. He's joining us from Uruguay, where he has wisely chosen to spend his pandemic isolation. But clearly, when you're thinking about ancient Egypt or elsewhere, there's definitely a funerary tradition. The Psychedelic Gospels: The Secret History of Hallucinogens in 55 This is very likely as it seems that the process had already started in the 4th century. So if Eleusis is the Fight Club of the ancient world, right, the first rule is you don't talk about it. She joins me for most events and meetings. I'd never thought before about how Christianity developed as an organized religion in the centuries after Jesus' murder. Origin of the Romanians - Wikipedia The actual key that I found time and again in looking at this literature and the data is what seems to be happening here is the cultivation of a near-death experience. What's the wine? And so I cite a Pew poll, for example, that says something like 69% of American Catholics do not believe in transubstantiation, which is the defining dogma of the church, the idea that the bread and wine literally becomes the flesh and blood. The only reason I went to college was to study classics. So the big question is, what kind of drug was this, if it was a drug? Because even though it's a very long time ago, Gobekli Tepe, interestingly, has some things in common with Eleusis, like the worship of the grain, the possibility of brewing, the notion of a pilgrimage, and interaction with the dead. But we do know that something was happening. Nage ?] Something else I include at the end of my book is that I don't think that whatever this was, this big if about a psychedelic Eucharist, I don't think this was a majority of the paleo-Christians. Where are the drugs? This is true. BRIAN MURARESKU: Right. Not much. John H Elliott - Empires Of The Atlantic World.pdf Well, wonderful. That's the big question. Even a little bit before Gobekli Tepe, there was another site unearthed relatively recently in Israel, at the Rakefet cave. They followed Platonic (and other Greeks) philosophy. And so I don't know what a really authentic, a really historic-looking ritual that is equal parts sacred, but also, again, medically sound, scientifically rigorous, would look like. Nage ?] Now are there any other questions you wish to propose or push or-- I don't know, to push back against any of the criticisms or questions I've leveled? But I do want to push back a little bit on the elevation of this particular real estate in southern Italy. I don't think we have found it. The Religion has a Name: "Shamanism" - AKJournals The Immortality Key - Book Review and Discussion - Were early - Reddit Now I understand and I appreciate the pharmaceutical industry's ability to distribute this as medicine for those who are looking for alternatives, alternative treatments for depression and anxiety and PTSD and addiction and end of life distress. CHARLES STANG: Well, Mr, Muraresku, you are hedging your bets here in a way that you do not necessarily hedge your bets in the book. And so I can see psychedelics being some kind of extra sacramental ministry that potentially could ease people at the end of life. BRIAN MURARESKU: I don't-- I don't claim too heavily. So we not only didn't have the engineering know-how-- we used to think-- we didn't have even settled life to construct something like this. And so that opened a question for me. Here's another one. And much of the evidence that you've collected is kind of the northern half of the Mediterranean world. And this is at a time when we're still hunting and gathering. And I started reading the studies from Pat McGovern at the University of Pennsylvania. What does it mean to die before dying? Let me start with the view-- the version of it that I think is less persuasive. Brought to you by GiveWell.org charity research and effective giving and 5-Bullet Friday, my very own email newsletter.Welcome to The Tim Ferriss Show, where it is usually my job to deconstruct world-class performers to tease out their routines, habits, et cetera that you can apply to your own life. And in the ancient world, wine was routinely referred to as a [SPEAKING GREEK], which is the Greek word for drug. According to Muraresku, this work, which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? And what do you believe happens to you when you do that? 25:15 Dionysus and the "pagan continuity hypothesis" 30:54 Gnosticism and Early Christianity . difficult to arrive at any conclusive hypothesis. But we at least have, again, the indicia of evidence that something was happening there. And we know the mysteries were there. I think the only big question is what the exact relationship was from a place like that over to Eleusis. In the Classics world, there's a pagan continuity hypothesis with the very origin of Christianity, and many overt references to Greek plays in the Gospel of John. He's the god of wine. At Cambridge University he worked in developmental biolo. There's a moment in the book where you are excited about some hard evidence. Is there a smoking gun? And what we find at this farmhouse is a sanctuary that Enriqueta Pons herself, the archaeologist who's been on site since 1990, she calls it some kind of sanctuary dedicated to the goddesses of the mysteries. By which I mean that the Gospel of John suggests that at the very least, the evangelist hoped to market Christianity to a pagan audience by suggesting that Jesus was somehow equivalent to Dionysus, and that the Eucharist, his sacrament of wine, was equivalent to Dionysus's wine. Now, I don't put too much weight into that. This time, tonight I'll say that it's just not my time yet. According to Muraresku, this work, BOOK REVIEW which "presents the pagan continuity hypothesis with a psychedelic twist," addresses two fundamental questions: "Before the rise of Christianity, did the Ancient Greeks consume a secret psychedelic sacrament during their most famous and well-attended religious rituals? This 'pagan continuity hypothesis' with a psychedelic twist is now backed up by biochemistry and agrochemistry and tons of historical research, exposing our forgotten history. And I think that's an important distinction to make. So I present this as proof of concept, and I heavily rely on the Gospel of John and the data from Italy because that's what was there. BRIAN MURARESKU: Great question. So imagine how many artifacts are just sitting in museums right now, waiting to be tested. And so the big hunt for me was trying to find some of those psychedelic bits. And what the FDA can do is make sure that they're doing it in a way that it's absolutely safe and efficacious. That also only occurs in John, another epithet of Dionysus. There were formula. But I'm pressing you because that's my job. Certainly these early churchmen used whatever they could against the forms of Christian practice they disapproved of, especially those they categorized as Gnostic. And to be quite honest, I'd never studied the ancient Greeks in Spain. You want to field questions in both those categories? And I write, at the very end of the book, I hope that they'd be proud of this investigation. Several theories address the issue of the origin of the Romanians.The Romanian language descends from the Vulgar Latin dialects spoken in the Roman provinces north of the "Jireek Line" (a proposed notional line separating the predominantly Latin-speaking territories from the Greek-speaking lands in Southeastern Europe) in Late Antiquity.The theory of Daco-Roman continuity argues that the . Perhaps more generally, you could just talk about other traditions around the Mediterranean, North African, or, let's even say Judaism. The Gnostics did have continuity with paganism. Not in every single case, obviously. And that's all I present it as, is wonderfully attractive and maybe even sexy circumstantial evidence for the potential use of a psychedelic sacrament amongst the earliest Christians. And did the earliest Christians inherit the same secret tradition? And my favorite line of the book is, "The lawyer in me won't sleep until that one chalice, that one container, that one vessel comes to light in an unquestionable Christian context.". . And I, for one, look forward to a time when I can see him in person for a beer, ergotized beer or not, if he ever leaves Uruguay. Now, that is part of your kind of interest in democratizing mysticism, but it also, curiously, cuts out the very people who have been preserving this tradition for centuries, namely, on your own account, this sort of invisible or barely visible lineage of women. It's a big question for me. But you will be consoled to know that someone else will be-- I will be there, but someone else will be leading that conversation. If we're being honest with ourselves, when you've drunk-- and I've drunk that wine-- I didn't necessarily feel that I'd become one with Jesus. So can you reflect on the-- standing on the threshold of pharmaceutical companies taking control of this, how is that to be commended when the very people who have kept this alive would be pushed to the side in that move? So what have you learned about the Eleusinian mysteries in particular since Ruck took this up, and what has convinced you that Ruck's hypothesis holds water? Plants of the Gods: Hallucinogens, Healing, Culture and Conservation Brian C. Muraresku with Dr. Mark Plotkin: The Eleusinian Mysteries, Discovering the Divine, The Immortality Key, The Pagan Continuity Hypothesis, Psychedelics, and More | Tim Ferriss Show #646 So it is already happening. #649: Rick Rubin, Legendary Music Producer The Creative Act Do you think that the Christians as a nascent cult adapted a highly effective psycho technology that was rattling . So that's from Burkert, a very sober scholar and the dean of all scholarship on Greek religion. Like savory, wormwood, blue tansy, balm, senna, coriander, germander, mint, sage, and thyme. And so if there is a place for psychedelics, I would think it would be in one of those sacred containers within monastic life, or pilgrims who visit one of these monastic centers, for example.